Conservatives for Obama.

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"I’m a conservative and I'm voting for Obama. I want to teach the Republican Party a lesson." I'm hearing more and more of this nonsense every day. The reasons that conservatives give for this movement are not new.

As long as I can remember, conservatives have been fighting with the GOP. When they don't get their way, the remedy has been to sit out, vote for a Third Party (example Perot) or vote for the Democrats.

Have these practices worked? Yes, they gave control of the House and Senate to Democrats for 40 + years. They got Carter elected once and Clinton elected twice.

Conservatives are powerful, they have the organization on the ground and the GOP needs them to win. Conservatives dominate talk radio and the blogs. The conservative movement against Bush has caused him to be an unpopular president, has given us Pelosi and Reid, and is putting the GOP at a great disadvantage this coming November.

The movement originally was about abortion. That is no longer the case. If it were, then conservatives would be happy with President Bush who appointed two conservative Supreme Court Justices. If it were, they would support the pro-life candidate, McCain and shun the pro-abortion candidate, Obama.

What is the movement about now? It seems to be about control. There is no single issue that unites conservatives, except that they want control of the GOP and if they don’t get it they are willing to destroy the country. It’s the “scorched earth” idea. I hear it from talk radio, from the blogs, etc. The thinking goes like this: Things will have to get a whole lot worse before they get better. If Obama and the Democrats control everything and the country goes to the dogs, then we can finally get another Reagan.

I’ve heard this kind of argument for many years and things have gotten a lot worse. Abortions continue to be performed. Marriage is no longer between a man and a woman in some States and the trend towards legalizing gay marriage will continue. Our schools are brainwashing our youth with the liberal agenda. Liberal Judges overturn the will of the people on a regular basis. Government spending continues to go up and will expand much more rapidly under Obama and the Democrats. We could lose the War on Terror and have attacks on our soil again.

How much worse must things get before conservatives can unite and work with the GOP rather than against it?

Sandra Lea Wise

Update: See article by Thomas Sowell

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/07/08/conservatives_for_obama

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DocJ's picture

Conservatives for Obama. - I’m hearing more and more of this nonsense.

Really? Seriously?

Where?

As long as I can remember, conservatives have been fighting with the GOP. The remedy has been to sit out, vote for a Third Party (example Perot) or vote for the Democrats.

Well, the "Conservatives are in Jihad with the GOP" is certainly the RMSP line, eh? Do you have anything other than "Sez Me" to back-up that large number of self-identified conservative voters who routinely voted Democrat or for Perot in 92 and 96? Because I seem to recall that, for the most part, Perot's votes came from squishy apolotical "moderate" types.

Have these practices worked? Yes, they gave control of the House and Senate to Democrats for 40 + years. They got Carter elected once and Clinton elected twice.

Who knew conservatives had such power! You're also ignoring several rather substantal pieces of data - especially during that 40-year wilderness period - but I suppose we ought not let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Conservatives are powerful, they have the organization on the ground and the GOP needs them to win. The conservative movement against Bush has caused him to be an unpopular president, has given us Pelosi and Reid, and puts the GOP at a great disadvantage this coming November.

Well the first sentence is somewhat reasonable, but the rest of this is just silly. Conservatives abandoning Bush are responsible for his dismal approval ratings?? Seriously Sandra - don't you think his low-20's approval among "Moderates" and near universal dispisal from Democrats are the reason?

Ah, and then more RMSP pap - the "Conservatives sat-out in 2006" meme. Pity there's nothing to back that up. But hey, you're rolling.

And it only gets sillier from there...

The movement originally was about abortion...

Huh? WTH??

Sorry, I simply cannot get past this and, frankly, I have a meeting to get to.

Ta.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

David Hinz's picture

The Dems never gave this president a chance, despising him from day one. "Selected -- Not Elected" BDS.

And the quishy center has -- well been squishy -- supporting him when public opinion was with him, moving away as the wind blew out to sea.

It HAS in fact, been the loss of support from conservatives -- unchecked spending, growth in the size of government, unwillingness to defend himself or his administration from leftist attacks -- has been what has dropped his opinion rating over the past year.

As for Conservatives voting for Obama? NOTTACHANCE!

DocJ's picture

... to suggest that Bush's decline in standing is due to abandonment by conservatives when it was, in fact, precisely those conservatives who stuck with him the longest and, for the most part, continue to provide the lion's share of whatever support he currently maintains.

But let's play that out for a minute - taking your point...

...unchecked spending, growth in the size of government, unwillingness to defend himself or his administration from leftist attacks...

All true. All pointed out from the git-go by conservatives (check-out the date on that post - I had to refer to my long-dormant personal blog site because you cannot even FIND it at RS anymore!). All completely ignored by the New ToneTM sqishes in Bush's own cabinet.

So, here's my question for the Sandra's of the world - what, precisely, were we supposed to do? Grin and bear it? Well, we did - for the better part of 7-years.

And where are similar examples of the famed "Moderates" doing the same with regard to Bush's rare truly conservative overtures? The sounds of chirping crickets will be the only truthful answer to that one.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

BTW, I'm a conservative, not a moderate. You are right, there are still conservatives that love Bush - we are the 30% approval he still gets.

DocJ's picture

I didn't think I was alluding to your own political leanings - only that you were giving voice to the more-or-less standard lines of the RMSP (the Christie Whitman's of the world). Sorry if I was not clear on that point.

And I'm sorry if I came across as short - I was rushing (in part) but am also really, really tired of the "Conservative Jihad" meme spouting from the mouths of squishes since about January 1995 (if not January 1981). I have no patience for it, particularly given that there is scant evidence to support their claims (the whole "conservatives sat out and that's why we dealing with Speakerette Dingbat" - and similar) and better than 40-years of evidence that trying it "their way" (the Bob Michel approach) is anything other than a solid electoral loser nationally.

Thanks again.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

DocJ's picture

I meant to say "Here's my question for the RMSP'ers of the world" but didn't edit it before pressing send.

My bad - sorry. Let's all take this as a "revise and extend" moment...

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

I appreciate it.

Now I hit the send key too soon. I meant "Duly recorded." You certainly aren't dull.

DocJ's picture

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

A question: Can you tell me how to do links here? I tried the html and it didn't work to do a text link.

It did work....

David Hinz's picture

you will note, the "Input format" line underneath the text box. Click on that, and use whichever format you are most accustomed to . The default is BBcode, which is actually easier than html once you figure it out.

But, if you are more comfortable with html just click on that. One thing about html that Mike DeVine can never figure out is using the <p><p> between paragraphs

I appreciate it! I tried the BBcode but didn't get it right. I'll work on it. Glad to know I can use the html until I figure out the other! It does look easier.

I love the fact that we can edit comments. That's really cool. I haven't seen that on any other blogs.

David Hinz's picture

I'm the old dog -- just about the time that I get my trick down real good -- these guys come along with a whole new one.

BUT, that BBcode does work easier. [ and ] and simplified url and quote -- but I still use one or the other depending on whim. If I cross post something at RS for instance, it it easier to use the html since that is what I have to use over there right now.

she would campaign for Hillary? I don't know if she is out campaigning for BHO, but if that's an example of what you are saying, it seems the shoe fits...

DocJ's picture

Yep, I too seem to recall Coulter saying that. Two problems - first, she has not, to my knowledge, claimed similar sentiments for BHO and second, you're taking Ann Coulter at her word and seriously.

Coulter is about selling books and getting herself on TV - nothing more or less. YMMV, but I cannot take her seriously as some sort of weathervane of mainstream conservatives.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

Conservatives For Obama

I'm not sure how to do a link here.

Steve Foley's picture

We use BBCode there's a guide here :0)

I thought my html had worked!

DocJ's picture

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

DocJ's picture

name any names. Also interestingly, only about the first quarter of Sowell's piece is about "Conservatives for Obama" while the rest is a (well deserved) critique of Omambi.

When people start naming names, or people start outing themselves as "Conservatives for Obama", I'll start to believe it. Until then, this sounds like ever so much sour grapes over the fact that Senator Maverick can't keep his fat mouth shut long enough to win-over self-same conservatives.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

and I think she was speaking to like minded conservatives...

DocJ's picture

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

I lost a lot of respect for her after that. In my mind you don't play around with elections. The future of our nation is at stake.

Steve Foley's picture

...that "any conservative of note" has pledged to vote for Obama. Thomas Sowell, who I respect deeply, lays out a great article in the link you provided as to why no one should vote Obama and although I'm sure the MSM and others wouldn't have a hard time finding rank and file conservatives who plan on voting for Obama... they can't point to any issues that they agree with him on (not that Obama agrees with himself on most issues).

Until such time as these so called "Obamacons" outnumber the multitude of I's, D's, and Clinton supporters for McCain the point is moot!

DocJ's picture

But Steve, it must be said that there is a nontrivial string of Republican heterodoxy out there claiming that anything other than total, complete, enthusiastic, low-crawl-naked-across-broken-glass support for Maverick is, in fact, support for Obambi. Right?

So, in other words, someone like me who is seriously toying with the idea of voting for Bob Barr (caveat: my MA vote don't mean nothing) is, in the minds of some (AHEMplentyofthematRSAHEM), straight-up support for Obama. I don't buy that line of argument for an instant of course, but then again I'm an apostate - part of the problem in their minds.

Again, I am in no way alluding that this is where Sandra is going - I don't think she's going anywhere near this, in fact.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

Steve Foley's picture

...the meme that if you have serious misgivings about supporting/pulling the lever for McCain that you're in the tank for Obamassiah is rubbish!

considering a vote for Barr?????

Sorry, but, um that sounds pretty...um dumb?

No offense meant, of course...:)

Steve Foley's picture

Very perceptive...;)

Steve Foley's picture

...meant for you!

As the comment was a reply to mine, which was in no way relevant to what I said, asking the question was in order!

Thank you

Sometimes when you click "Reply" on a comment, the reply follows the comment and other times it doesn't. Am I missing something? That makes it hard to know who is commenting to whom.

Just trying to get used to the system here.

Steve Foley's picture

...of that.

Hitting reply should thread directly to the comment you're replying too. :0)

Brian Simpson's picture
all replies will show up inline. This is to avoid the skinny threads that blogs like RedState have.

HR> Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.

Thought I was responding to Doc...I missed your name somehow.

I will try to pay more attention...:)

Steve Foley's picture

DocJ's picture

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

is that by sitting out, voting for a third party, or even voting for Obama is not an option if we care about the country. McCain was not my choice, but I will vote for him and I will vote for my local Republican representatives.

As Thomas Sowell said in his article, " Nor were elections set up in order to enable voters to vent their emotions or indulge their fantasies. Voting is a right but it is also a duty-- a duty not just to show up on election day, but a duty to give serious thought to the alternatives on the table and what those alternatives mean for the future of the nation."

I read the blogs and listen to talk radio. Many conservative voters use elections to punish the Republican Party.

David Hinz's picture

to elect John McCain as President -- because the alternative is unthinkable.

Then it becomes our duty to hold the bast**ds feet to the fire -- to make sure he either respects our views or we will find someone else in 4 years who will!

And then we elect other conservatives if the ones we have are not performing, as you said. The voters don't always vote for the right person in the primaries. So then we have to work to get conservatives to run at the local level, get bigger majorities so that they can keep the President on the right track.

Letting Liberals win makes no sense at all.

DocJ's picture

by sitting out, voting for a third party, or even voting for Obama is not an option if we care about the country.

Sandra, I'm a recovering Libertarian - though I was always rather well right-of-center of my handful of colleagues in the LP of CT, of which I was Vice Chair for 2+years. Appropos of nothing in particular, but just so you know from where I come.

"...a duty to give serious thought to the alternatives on the table and what those alternatives mean for the future of the nation."

And you obviously assume I've not done that. And you would be thoroughly wrong on that score.

McCain was barely acceptable as a candidate to me before he became a Goreon. Now, he's off the map.

Further, I think he, as President, would destroy what will remain of the Republican Party after the pasting we're likely to take in 2008 - paving the way for President Witch in 2012 with, perhaps, veto-proof congressional majorities. How's that for "giv(ing) serious thought to the alternatives on the table and what those alternatives mean for the future of the nation"?

I read the blogs and listen to talk radio. Many conservative voters use elections to punish the Republican Party.

As do I - though not so much with Talk Radio. What I hear is that conservative voters "punish" the GOP when they have it coming and are the first in line with cash and "Atta-boys" when they deserve it. Comes with the territory. If you want the cash, phone-bankers, stand-outs, envelope stuffers, etc. that you need to run a campaign, you gotta take the beating from these folks when you toss them under the bus.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

so do we then throw the GOP under the bus?

DocJ's picture

History did not give us John McCain as our nominee. Principally, non-Republican voters in Open Primaries in a small handful of states gave us John McCain as our nominee. Further, I seriously believe he will bring about the end of the party and usher-in the era of FDR-II in a Pant's Suit. So I am therefore rather unmoved by howls that my lack of support for Maverick is equivalent to "tossing the GOP under the bus".

Here's the bottom line for me - If I'm going to have to vote for a Scoop Jackson Democrat for President I would perfer not have to do so for someone listed as a Republican. YMMV.

And FWIW, I'm not advocating tossing "The GOP" under the bus. There are plenty of CongressCritters worthy of enthusiastic support and I encourage all to support them as I do personally.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

DocJ's picture

so do we then throw the GOP under the bus?

Well, I make no pretention that I speak for anyone other than myself - so I'm not sure when we do much of anything.

But as for me? When the GOP ceases to stand for a set of principles with which I agree more often than not, I'm done with them. And should President McCain attempt - as de facto head of the party after his election - to remake the GOP in his McAmnesty, Goreon, BCRA image at that point they probably cross the "more often than not" threshold.

As always, YMMV.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

However, I had not assumed anything about your voting habits.

DocJ's picture

Just giving you a POV from the standpoint of a former, and recovering, serial 3rd party voter.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.

David Hinz's picture

I have said: I will vote for Sen McCain. As it stands right now, the way he has treated the conservative wing of the party for the past 8 years, I will not go out and campaign for him -- I will not send him money. I have a very good conservative representative and I will put my efforts toward his re-election.

I will work to try to get some other conservative representatives elected in surrounding districts. I will donate to conservative candidates in other states.

Sen McCain has my vote. He does not, as yet, have my loyalty.

Dittos.